300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:30 pm

So the rules includes this cool rule;

"If a person were to train jutsu of a concentration same as their Primary Affinity, their minimum for that affinity is 300 words instead of the traditional 400."

Which, I actually think it kinda dope. Makes a good use of the affinity section. However, uhhh you can't have suiton taijutsu (they'd be nintai) or suiton genjutsu (they'd be ningen) so theres a rule in place that specifically gives ninjutsu users some obscure advantage, relatively minor, mind you, but an advantage none-the-less.

Apparently, the argument was "You're choosing not to utilize ninpou so you are opting out of these benefit" but that seems backwards because its not like an opting out of it in lieu of getting 300 word training for illusion genjutsu. Some characters are designed in a way, character or combat design, that doesn't call for elemental jutsu, or ninpou period. Just like there are ninjutsu characters that are designed in a way, character or combat design, that doesn't call for status genjutsu or taijutsu disciplines.

Basically, no one is going to design their character for this advantange, BUT, if you just so happen to design a character that does get this advantage, its just an added bonus that other characters aren't getting because of character design.

There should definitely be some additional bonus in the same vein for genjutsu or taijutsu users.

thnx
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Nick
Posts: 4404
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Strat's mom's house

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Nick » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:35 pm

I argued this to hell and back when the idea was being made. The consensus is it doesn't matter, everyone gets to make use of the affinity bonus even if you're a gen or tai user, and 'it's your fault if you don't use it.'
"It's so sad!" the reader said to the writer with a frown. "The character in my book just died!" The author turned to her and burst out into tears, "I know!" he said, "So did mine!"
Ninja Info CardsShow

Grand Shogun of River
Suzuko
Just another girl

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Sun Jul 08, 2018 6:45 pm

But if you're a gen or tai user you don't make use of it. Lol. Like, its very clearly a perk for a specific class of characters. Clearly you see the backwards logic in that.


And really, if thats the position, then it would make more sense to make an equitable reduction in genjutsu and taijutsu, which wouldn't be utilized by others.
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Director
Hokage
Hokage
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: Before or after the explosion?
User flair: If you read this, you're gay.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Director » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:14 pm

Would you rather see this discount applied to one concentration of a specialists choice? So that way this could be applied to those with other builds?

So like a ninpou spec could choose one of their concentrations to apply this discount to? Same with ele specs, gen specs, or tai specs. So that way they too can have some form of this reward?
Character: Awai, Fanho | Rank: Hokage | Village: Konoha | Color Code: [b][color=#682860]
Character: Konshi, Yuichi | Rank: Jounin | Village: Kumogakure | Color Code: [b][color=#0051BA]

User avatar
Nick
Posts: 4404
Joined: Sat Jul 10, 2010 8:00 pm
Location: Strat's mom's house

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Nick » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:26 pm

That gets a little messy with gen and tai. What do you do with a taijutsu that uses 4 different concs for a single jutsu? Or a genjutsu, because all genjutsu use at least their initiator, but then also warp, overlay, etc
"It's so sad!" the reader said to the writer with a frown. "The character in my book just died!" The author turned to her and burst out into tears, "I know!" he said, "So did mine!"
Ninja Info CardsShow

Grand Shogun of River
Suzuko
Just another girl

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Sun Jul 08, 2018 7:34 pm

I think for genjutsu, the class would be fine(Status/Illusion/Warp/Overlay)

Taijutsu could easily be done for Stance/Discipline/Maneuver or whatever.

I think the alternative for an emphasis in lieu of an affinity would be sufficient.
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Jinan B
Posts: 1793
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:00 pm
Location: U.K.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Jinan B » Sun Jul 08, 2018 8:29 pm

Could you not simply opt into a specific tai style with your affinity reduction? Seems like it'd tie in well to the whole better at one specific thing than being good at a third of all your diverse tai?
Characters
NameRankVillageOrgColour
Karagata, Kinsue
Jounin
Kirigakure
HHD

Mediumseagreen
Kenitsuna, Ko’ichi
Genin
Iwagakure
None

Lightsteelblue
Test Thread Saigen Census V2

User avatar
Takumi
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Takumi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 5:32 am

Meh. Every style of jutsu has its own advantages and disadvantages. I don't see why each needs its own equivalent advantage. One example of this is single pyramids for tai and gen. Nin doesn't get that benefit but it's not a big deal. This discount is a neat way to make affinities interesting without being op.

User avatar
Fake
Posts: 475
Joined: Wed Dec 06, 2017 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Fake » Mon Jul 09, 2018 7:26 am

Takumi:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:32 am
Meh. Every style of jutsu has its own advantages and disadvantages. I don't see why each needs its own equivalent advantage. One example of this is single pyramids for tai and gen. Nin doesn't get that benefit but it's not a big deal. This discount is a neat way to make affinities interesting without being op.
NameVillageRankOrganizationTest★ YATO ★KonohaA-RankThe God HandTest★ AYATO ★Knowledge CountryC-RankKobushi KaishuuTest

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:21 pm

Jinan B:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:29 am
Could you not simply opt into a specific tai style with your affinity reduction? Seems like it'd tie in well to the whole better at one specific thing than being good at a third of all your diverse tai?
This would be nintai at that point, wouldn't it? Or did you mean in place of an affinity.
Takumi:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 10:32 am
Meh. Every style of jutsu has its own advantages and disadvantages. I don't see why each needs its own equivalent advantage. One example of this is single pyramids for tai and gen. Nin doesn't get that benefit but it's not a big deal. This discount is a neat way to make affinities interesting without being op.
That's a bad example because ninjutsu is universal. as in, anything you can do with suiton, you can conceivably do with fuuton, or ninpou alone. The only difference is the elemental impact..which..is the point of that diversification. You're framing multiple pyramids as a disadvantage but the fact that ninjutsu has such diverse utility that it calls for multple pyramids speaks more to the advantages it has, not the disadvantages.

Affinities are already interesting, this is just an extra boost to put ninjutsu even more central to the mechanics of the forum and doesn't really make sense.
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Takumi
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Takumi » Mon Jul 09, 2018 3:51 pm

Ace Trainer:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 pm
Affinities are already interesting
Affinities currently are useless 90% of the time. Outside of one genma and some sensory stuff, affinities have no impact on the site.

Legacy
Posts: 1709
Joined: Sat Apr 11, 2015 8:00 pm
User flair: Conflict begets Growth

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Legacy » Mon Jul 09, 2018 4:40 pm

Big lies.
ACTIVE CHARACTERShow

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:32 am

Takumi:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:51 pm
Ace Trainer:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 pm
Affinities are already interesting
Affinities currently are useless 90% of the time. Outside of one genma and some sensory stuff, affinities have no impact on the site.
LMAO WHAT?

We basically redesigned the entire ninjutsu system on the forum to give affinities their passives and create a legitimate elemental power wheel. “Outside the genma” bruh get resl
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Director
Hokage
Hokage
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: Before or after the explosion?
User flair: If you read this, you're gay.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Director » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:50 am

Ace Trainer:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:32 pm
Takumi:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:51 pm
Ace Trainer:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 pm
Affinities are already interesting
Affinities currently are useless 90% of the time. Outside of one genma and some sensory stuff, affinities have no impact on the site.
LMAO WHAT?

We basically redesigned the entire ninjutsu system on the forum to give affinities their passives and create a legitimate elemental power wheel. “Outside the genma” bruh get resl
He means the affinity section on the apps holds no purpose Onu. Which is what was addressed with making affinities on apps getting the discount. Don’t be intellectually obtuse and act like he’s dumb. You have an issue, communicate it properly. He doesn’t mean the elements themselves hold no purpose.
Character: Awai, Fanho | Rank: Hokage | Village: Konoha | Color Code: [b][color=#682860]
Character: Konshi, Yuichi | Rank: Jounin | Village: Kumogakure | Color Code: [b][color=#0051BA]

User avatar
Takumi
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Takumi » Tue Jul 10, 2018 10:54 am

affinity =/= elemental concentrations. We could get rid of the affinity section on an app right now and it would barely change anything

User avatar
WrightJustice
Posts: 8010
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: Your father.
Contact:

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by WrightJustice » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:00 pm

To be honest I didn't see this problem when it was announced since it just looked like a cool thing, though I did ask about changing affinity on existing chars for free which was said to be allowed.

That being said before this the affinity section was pointless, simply an old relic from the old system we had before concs and as such characters like my Yamanaka have a random affinity just to fill it in, otherwise it is generally something new members don't understand and always mix it up with said concs.
It is only with this change that it becomes relevant at all, which is why I asked about changing affinities though Nao is completely Ninpou and I do not see him learning any element concs at all.

Given that though it does now make that section suddenly become worth something and that worth is technically uneven for characters now since it gives this slight edge to specific classes of characters.
In actuality it could be argued it is much more than a slight edge since numbers do add up with 300 words feeling that much better than 400, which then feels even better when you're doing less than 1000 (aka 900) for 3 things whereas normally its 1200 which is also actually an whole other training if it was for 300 words instead.

User avatar
Director
Hokage
Hokage
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: Before or after the explosion?
User flair: If you read this, you're gay.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Director » Tue Jul 10, 2018 1:03 pm

Wright you understand it only lowers the minimum word count if you were to reach it? It isn’t like a universal -100 words off. Its primarily if your discount happens to reach below 400, you still retain that discount to a new minimum of 300.
Character: Awai, Fanho | Rank: Hokage | Village: Konoha | Color Code: [b][color=#682860]
Character: Konshi, Yuichi | Rank: Jounin | Village: Kumogakure | Color Code: [b][color=#0051BA]

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:14 pm

DirectorPr:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:50 pm
Ace Trainer:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:32 pm
Takumi:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 8:51 pm
Affinities currently are useless 90% of the time. Outside of one genma and some sensory stuff, affinities have no impact on the site.
LMAO WHAT?

We basically redesigned the entire ninjutsu system on the forum to give affinities their passives and create a legitimate elemental power wheel. “Outside the genma” bruh get resl
He means the affinity section on the apps holds no purpose Onu. Which is what was addressed with making affinities on apps getting the discount. Don’t be intellectually obtuse and act like he’s dumb. You have an issue, communicate it properly. He doesn’t mean the elements themselves hold no purpose.
Ew eff off. What a passive way to call me a dick, it bothers me even more.
Takumi:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 3:54 pm
affinity =/= elemental concentrations. We could get rid of the affinity section on an app right now and it would barely change anything
Yeah I see what you mean, sorry that was a misunderstanding on my part.
If that's the case then get rid of the section and the bonus. Don't add an arbitrary benefit that unevenly impacts people to validate a part of the app.
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
Director
Hokage
Hokage
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: Before or after the explosion?
User flair: If you read this, you're gay.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Director » Tue Jul 10, 2018 8:28 pm

Well you were being a dick. I appreciate you apologizing.

Anyways, the points not entirely sound because of abilities and the Empathy genma that base their strengths on the affinities. If you were to change that to Elemental Concentrations you'd be giving it a large power boost considering all you need is one elemental master to drastically raise the power of an Empathy Genma jinch because they need different affinities currently to emulate power. Not only that but sensory would be able to tell affinity, but not necessarily concentrations since they are learned skills not what the person is naturally born with an affinity for.

Also any other affinity based abilities you'd be buffing as well to exorbitant amounts because then they'd need to be based on elemental concentration. The affinity section needs to stay. The discount is negligent at best as its just a decrease from the minimum word count if you were to ever achieve it. In-fact I'd argue it doesn't really make a difference balance wise or promote a build because its such a small discount, and only applicable to those who can even make their discounts reach that low for high ranking worth jutsu.
Character: Awai, Fanho | Rank: Hokage | Village: Konoha | Color Code: [b][color=#682860]
Character: Konshi, Yuichi | Rank: Jounin | Village: Kumogakure | Color Code: [b][color=#0051BA]

User avatar
Ace Trainer
Posts: 16242
Joined: Sun Nov 23, 2008 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Ace Trainer » Wed Jul 11, 2018 4:21 am

See. This is what is wrong with the position your taking. You’re not making any arguments to justify only giving this bonus to affinities, your arguments are exclusively to validate having affinities.

Having an equitable elsewhere bonus doesn’t make affinities “less interesting” because affinities are still granting this reduction.

All I’m asking is that we don’t more unequally grant benefits to the strongest/most central class of Kursk without giving some sort of equal benefit to the other classes.
Mistaki ShioShiimu KozanGekko IndraShoshiki HeiyaHizashi Ikinari
Kirigakure No Sato
Kemurigakure no Sato

Taishou of Iron Country
Kirigakure No Sato
Genin
Experiment 81 v2
Sunagakure No Sato
Genin
The Soul Host
Iwagakure No Sato
Special Jounin
The Tungsten Princess
Sunagakure No Sato
Jounin
The Revolutionary
Past CharactersShow
[Kenketi Tenteki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Special Jounin]
[Setsuya Inka :: Sunagakure No Sato – The Soul Host – Special Jounin]
[Kaikyo Kohon :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shinwa Basuta no Suihouheki Yasahii :: Kirigakure No Sato – Mizukage :: Spirit of Capricorn, Topenga]
[Futokutei Hitoare :: Konohagakure No Sato – Pestilence (Four Horsemen) – Jounin]
[Aisu Koiji :: Kirigakure No Sato – Jounin]
[Shitagane Sakki :: Kumogakure No Sato – Genin]
[Batsu Betsuni :: Iwagakure No SatoJounin A Rank Missing Ninja]
[Futokutei Yasunari :: Konohagakure No Sato – Genin]
ChatangoShow
HonchkrOnu
ArticOnu
RichardUnknown
RichardGreen
RichardRed
RichardBlack
RichardGold
AlienHostRichardGold
ValidusWrecks
ValidusWreckingBall
NotOnu
ReallyisOnu
NotCdf
SunaOOCOnu
HolyCowMrSmith
GlobalModOnu
AdminOnu
CboxModOnu
SlaptasitcOnu

User avatar
WrightJustice
Posts: 8010
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: Your father.
Contact:

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by WrightJustice » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:44 am

DirectorPr:
Tue Jul 10, 2018 6:03 pm
Wright you understand it only lowers the minimum word count if you were to reach it? It isn’t like a universal -100 words off. Its primarily if your discount happens to reach below 400, you still retain that discount to a new minimum of 300.
Yeah I know.
I was trying to say if you get all your words discounted down to minimum then 1200 words is 4 trainings for those that are using the affinity but its only 3 trainings for anything that's not.
That already feels like a lot and gives this incentive that you HAVE to use your affinity to keep up and in turn be an elemental ninjutsu user.

Obviously you still probably have way more capped at 400 since its only 1 affinity but there's still the feeling that if one of your skills is that element then you get a bigger break compared to others who do not use their affinity element.

It appears small but it easily adds up and though everyone could theoretically use it, there are clearly certain classes (for lack of a better term) that wouldn't like a purely ninpou user aiming for space time or a taijutsu intense character or a genjutsu intense character.

User avatar
Director
Hokage
Hokage
Posts: 3512
Joined: Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:00 pm
Location: Before or after the explosion?
User flair: If you read this, you're gay.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Director » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:56 am

I see your arguments, and here is my proposed solution. Its the same one from earlier, but let me flesh it out a bit more.

Grant the 300 word minimum trainings to anyone who is a specialist that picks a particular part of their field to have those trainings count towards. So for example, a taijutsu specialist can pick Disciplines, Maneuvers, or Stances to train with a 300 word minimum. A genjutsu specialist can pick Illusion, Status, Warp, Illusion of Force, or Overlays to train. Ninjutsu specialists can pick any ninpou based style. Elemental specialists can pick any elemental styles to train. This removes that issue of it being an affinity centered bonus.

Now I do have a personal question to propose to you. Do you have any ideas how to make Affinities interesting without giving them a bonus?
Character: Awai, Fanho | Rank: Hokage | Village: Konoha | Color Code: [b][color=#682860]
Character: Konshi, Yuichi | Rank: Jounin | Village: Kumogakure | Color Code: [b][color=#0051BA]

User avatar
Takumi
Posts: 462
Joined: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:00 pm

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Takumi » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:18 am

that's just "balance" for the sake of equality, I'd rather see the minimum trainings discount nixed entirely than just hamfisting balance for the sake of balance.

100 words off the minimum does not in any way force players to play a certain way. For starters, it'd be interesting to see numbers on how many jutsu are actually trained versus bought, but either way, amassing tons of jutsu isn't a huge advantage; variety is nice and useful, but won't mean a taijutsu user or genjutsu user are at inherent disadvantages for having less total jutsu.

The whole point of this was to make affinities, an old system that doesn't really fit in our newish concentration system (as evidenced by the confusion with onu), interesting. It wasn't to create a discount system to bypass the 400 word minimum. If it isn't making affinities more interesting, the discount shouldn't be in place. Giving a discount to everything puts us back at the same point, with now an extra needless system.

User avatar
WrightJustice
Posts: 8010
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2008 7:00 pm
Location: Your father.
Contact:

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by WrightJustice » Thu Jul 12, 2018 3:47 am

I'm not sure you can make them interesting or have a point without this perceived imbalance, like they've never really been that important in the first place.
In the old system it was just a way to limit how many elements you could use with the idea that the primary affinity is your innate affinity, which has become the only thing that carried over to this concentration based system but means nothing at all unless you're a fusion clan member.

To be honest I guess I still like the idea of the training bonus since in the end it is only for your primary affinity and even if numbers add up, its end level training anyway and its not unusual for all end level characters to be somewhat mixed even if their intention is being something like a taijutsu master or genjutsu master.

In that sense maybe it is the taijutsu/genjutsu masters that actually get the most out of it since they may reach a point where they want to mix in some ninjutsu and then at that point they have 0 so they are training everything for 300 words, whereas an elemental master has already got all those jutsu anyway by that point.

User avatar
Jinan B
Posts: 1793
Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:00 pm
Location: U.K.

300 Words Training for Elemental Users?

Post by Jinan B » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:42 am

Ace Trainer:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 6:21 pm
Jinan B:
Mon Jul 09, 2018 1:29 am
Could you not simply opt into a specific tai style with your affinity reduction? Seems like it'd tie in well to the whole better at one specific thing than being good at a third of all your diverse tai?
This would be nintai at that point, wouldn't it? Or did you mean in place of an affinity.
I mean like, instead of having "This character gets min 300 words on maneuverers whether it's strong fist or shinden or skitter step or head-butting people really hard style"; we allow someone to have the reduction in a specific style in the same relative vein as an affinity: ie. this character is extra good at toryu so he gets the better training minimum for manoeuvres, stances and disciplines within that style.
Characters
NameRankVillageOrgColour
Karagata, Kinsue
Jounin
Kirigakure
HHD

Mediumseagreen
Kenitsuna, Ko’ichi
Genin
Iwagakure
None

Lightsteelblue
Test Thread Saigen Census V2

LOCKED

Return to “Finished”

×