Attacking Medics is a War Crime

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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Ace Trainer » Thu Aug 13, 2020 11:45 am

Kozaki had been sitting back, watching. He spent a fair bit of time going through his mental catalogue of jutsu trying to sort out what exactly he needed to be prepared with, and to be quite honest he was impressed with the arsenal of jutsu that had been downloaded into his brain that morning. With so many options available, he was feeling pretty confident. Maybe it was just the pleasure talking. He’d realized it when Shio first did his attack, a small bit of glee coming into him. It only get bigger as Shio spoke out loud again, calling to everyone around him. On top of that, he’d felt some presence in his mind. Natsumi right behind him, Kota next to him, people at the tower. It felt very similar to the feeling of him being linked to peoples chakras all around him. It was clearly sensory, though some weakened unrefined form. But it was sensory nonetheless.

Kozaki looked up at the sky for a moment, the dark clouds that had been there seeming to well up even greater. Rain would fall soon, probably for the dramatic effect of some 10 year old in the next couple of posts. He sighed, Kozaki wasn’t a big fan of the rain. It was constantly raining in Kirigakure, he had hoped this mission would take him somewhere nicer. But, early in the morning all there was was darkness and clouds.

Turning his attention back to the fighting, he watched intently wondering what would happen next. Suddenly, a boy jumped off the roof and….vanished. Wow, what power some of these people had. As if Kozaki wasn’t a freak of nature himself. Before he knew it, the sensory in his mind blipped. Above ? He looked up to see the boy above them, a couple dozen meters. It didn’t take a genius to recognize what was coming.

”Kota.”, Kozaki called out, clearly beckoning the bannin towards the two of them. Without even waiting to see if the demon bannin would respond, Kozaki would thrust his right hand upwards, causing Samsara to begin bleeding from his arm at 45 speed. What a lovely ability this was. With his left he would kinesis it into a disk, about 3m in diameter directly above them. Without waiting, he thrust his left hand up, the black bracer around his arm jumping up into the air as his right hand rotated in a circle causing it to form in another thin disk about 3m in diameter. The two disks, each with 45 strength, would be just enough to protect them as Kozaki flared a nostril.

Sending a dollop of chakra to his comms he spoke deliberately, ”We’ve got two on us. Anyone with my realm, seems I will be fighting today so I’ll let you know what will be changing but be ready to rip that conduit out of your chest if its gonna be bad for you.”, it was obvious Kozaki was a little excited, the glee in his voice was hard to hide.

”Hope you’re ready.”, he said to them both. With Natsumi still right behind him, it would be difficult for Kozaki to fight knowing he had to stay in place. But, he’d do his best.
SpoilerShow
So the math is kind of funky here because of how the attacks work so this is my logic for it.

2 disks, each with 45 strength.

Attack 1 is 40 strength Raiton, so it’s blasts Shield 1 and drops it down to 72 str (45x2.5 = 112 - 40 = 72) but the Hiton attack has more power than the 45, so then I’m subtracting it from the original 40, leaving it with 5 strength. That reduces the Hiton attack to 45. So again defense calc sets in, its now at 67 str (45x2.5=112 - 45 = 67)

Also the only jutsu I used in kinesis and my weapon that hs 45 strength at default
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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Director » Fri Aug 14, 2020 9:17 pm

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Disputing Onu's defense. Its two attacks one right after the other immediately thrown after teleporting. Kozaki wouldn't have the reaction time to defend against them as he needs time to bleed the Samsara, form it into disks, and move them above themselves. In comparison to me and Jesse instantly lashing out our attacks as Kozaki notices us, there would be no time to defend. Despite Kozaki having 45 control making Samsara 45 and Jesse's jutsu being 40 speed/str it still has more steps than Jesse's does so Jesse's jutsu should take priority.

Not only that but I'm following up with a 50 speed/50 strength jutsu which would shatter Onu's samsara also outrunning it and isn't particularly clear in the rules that it'd reduce my strength being the stronger jutsu.

Despite all this, even if Kozaki had enough time to cast the disks to shield them from the raiton, they'd still be hit by it as the Raiton;
Quote:
Raiton has the effect of shocking, which means causes it's effect to be diffuse upon impact. In organic material, this causes nervous stimulation which results in numbness, tingling, loss of sensation, and sometimes paralysis. In inorganic material, this means that the strength of the jutsu diffuses across an area 2x the size of the attack. In a jutsu that creates a lightning ball 2m in diameter, if it struck a wall the size of the attack would cover a 4m area.
As the explosion is happening around them impacting the ground so it'd diffuse across the inorganic ground spreading out and hitting them. So Onu would lose control due to diffuse paralysis and getting hit with 40 strength. So they should both be hit with hiton and raiton as there's hardly any counteraction time since its instantly thrown from the time they appear above them so Kozaki would have just enough time to see the wave of raiton and hiton.

Also side note;
Quote:
[Extended Dominion]
S-Rank Space-Time Tenkufuuinjutsu
Prerequisite: A combined CP between Caster and Subject of least 70
By studying what little information she was permitted by Kirigakure about the shinobi Kozaki, she developed a fuuinjutsu which allows him to extend his [Dominion] out over 250 meters. This also requires others who use Space/Time or Summoning Jutsu to pay double the cost to work against the [Dominion] unless their [Control] is greater than the casters. This fuuinjutsu requires a constant effort by the Caster and Subject, requiring them to be immobile.
This is currently a jutsu being held by both Kozaki and Natsumi. It requires a constant effort between the two of them so I presume that Kozaki is preoccupied with the jutsu, and would have to take time to break away from it to cast his Samsara. There's nothing implying that Kozaki can cast Samsara without breaking it, or that he has full attentive ability to react without taking the second to break away.
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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Ace Trainer » Sat Aug 15, 2020 10:20 am

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As a note I'll make sure we delete these posts once we're done! :)

Order of operations..
1. Kozaki has sensory active thanks to Shio, so he doesn't need to see the attack, which I explicitly wrote out. They pop up above his head, its easy to know whats happening, he starts to defend. So I'd argue the attacks and defenses are all happening at the same time.

2. Fanho's jutsu doesn't specify that it can be held
SpoilerShow
Light Release • Konoha Smash
D-Rank Ninjutsu
After funneling hiton chakra into his fist or foot Fanho will then release it upon hitting his target. The extra chakra charged in his fist/foot will release a brutal raw concussive force of 50 strength and speed in an area that expands from his fist/foot for 90 meters. The height/width of the area is 74x74 meters. While Fanho's fist/foot is charged it glows bright with the power of hiton.
In fact, is specifically says it would be released upon hitting its target , presuming the air cannot count as a target, theres no way it can be released. But, letting that go. Nothing says Fanho can use this jutsu, then hold it while performing another jutsu. Considering typically jutsu that allow it will state "User can hold onto this for x posts before releasing" I'm going to assume Fanho can't do that.

3. Even if Fanho *could* do it, while nothing is explicitly written in the S/T rules about it, we have a pretty universal standard of no chakra just showing up out of no where. In fact, I very regularly making people clarify their jutsu to include "glowing chakra at point of origin" Because this jutsu doesn't require that, I'd argue it would be incredibly unbalanced to allow Fanho/Hayands teleport and immediately release a jutsu. In fact, we have an example of a jutsu that specifically doesn't let you do that.
SpoilerShow
*[Ninjutsu • Body Flicker Technique]
A-Ranked Nintaijutsu
After channeling chakra into their body, the user enhances their movement to attack or retreat suddenly, the ninja almost instantly moves up to 65 meters on the ground in a single straight direction. While doing this, the ninja cannot move through anything or anyone, nor can they supplement it with an attack of any kind. After the quick movement has stopped, there is a brief pause where the user must recover from the movement. Even though it's not a full teleportation, this jutsu uses up one of the 2 teleportations a character can use in a single thread.
So I would say, either
a) the jutsu Fanho is wanting to use can't even be used (but I'm perfectly fine with this which is why I didn't challege)
b) any jutsu Fanho/Hayands uses is going to need to wait a moment because teleporting to someone and immediately releasing a jutsu is unreasonably imbalanced

BASED ON THE ABOVE,

I definitely think I have time.
But even if the above turns out *not* to be true.

Fanho & Hayands are 30m in the air. Kozaki is on the ground,and is able to produce Samsara at 45speed. In the time the jutsu are moving, (since again, the moment they pop up Kozaki throws the disc up, not in response to the jutsu itself), all Kozaki has to do is spread out Samsara at 45 speed. Considering the jutsu are movingat 40 and 50 speed over 30, I think spreading out over 3m in this time is perfectly reasonable. The second defense is being made by his weapon which also has 45spd/str, and also does not require any effort for Kozaki to maintain its shape.

However the challenge did make me realize something, and thats probably that since they're being released at the same time, Fanho's jutsu would probably hit first, not Hayands. Since the latter is 10spd faster. So I'm more than happy to edit to account for this change, and the diffuse passive of Raiton, pending the determination of the defense.

Finally! My understanding of the immobile requirement was that they could not move from their position, not that they couldn't move their heads/hands. However, if thats the case, the break in concentration from Kozaki would simply end the jutsu, and wouldn't require anything specific from Kozaki in order to end it, since its not a purposeful termination but instead a byproduct of the terms of the jutsu not being upheld.
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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Jinan B » Sun Aug 16, 2020 3:28 am

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So there’s quite a lot going on in this dispute. I’ve spoken to Nafan about most of it and we’ve decided that the best way to go about it is in two phases due to what exactly needs to be edited.

So with that said, the first ruling on this is the following:

Given that Fanho’s ‘Light Release • Konoha Smash’ specifies that it releases its blast upon hitting its target; Fanho is not able to release it by punching the air. Since Fanho would no doubt have a thorough understanding of his Jutsu and how to use them, Director will have an opportunity to edit and change either his Jutsu or his method of attack before we move on to the remainder of the dispute.

On the topic of making an attack directly after a teleport, using Body Flicker (a Ninpou with a bare minimum of requirements to take) to make a basis on for a Space/Time technique (an endgame concentration) does not track. Looking instead at archived open space Jutsu there are no provisions relating to attacking immediately after teleporting, nor are there any relevant provisions relating to it in the list of Space/Time rules.

In addition, channelling a Jutsu and then teleporting is not equivalent to chakra showing up out of nowhere. The original Jutsu complies with all rules relating to channelling a Jutsu (visible chakra, etc) even if it is not necessarily visible to the intended target of the attack. The principle is similar to channelling a Jutsu before moving from behind a wall or other visual obstruction.

As such, Fanho and Hayate’s clone should be able to attack immediately after teleporting. In Fanho’s case, the Jutsu would need to be one that he is able to hold without releasing after forming hand seals or channelling it. Alternatively, he can use his Blink and after that begin to seal/channel his attack.
Director tells me that it has been established that Fanho and Hayate have trained together in the past, so it can be assumed that they are able to coordinate the timing on their Jutsu to a significant degree (though in the absence of them specifically using this manoeuvre IC in the past I would say not entirely perfectly)

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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Jinan B » Tue Aug 25, 2020 3:43 am

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Credit where it is due, Nafan wrote the vast majority of this.
We will begin with the attacks.

Fanho’s attack(s):
Reading the Jutsu that Fanho has edited to use, it is ambiguous as to how long he’s able to hold the technique in order to fire the ‘up to 10’. We’re willing to extend the benefit of the doubt to this technique, as the lack of clarity appears to be an error with the construction of the technique which was missed in registration. A lot of Fanho’s techniques appear to require some attention upon looking at his character sheet, but that is not directly in question for this opinion, it is simply something that we took into account as indicative that techniques may contain errors as passed that do not necessarily reflect the actual way the technique should work.

Hayands’ attack(s):
Given that Hayate received advice from a staff member (me lol) that was incorrect and this lead to him making certain decisions regarding his attack as it is an explosion, we are willing to allow him to adjust the control with which he casts this particular technique, but not change out which technique he is casting. It is worth noting that any increase in control casting will result in a longer charge time. Given the time pressure from the skeletons and the delay in communicating and reacting to instructions, Jinan and I believe that it is fair that any increase in control amounting to 45 or higher will mean that the technique will not be finished in time to fire instantaneously upon teleportation, and there will be a short delay (proportionate to the level of the technique). We request that Hayate respond to this ruling simply with the number at which he wishes to cast the technique in control. This reply must come before Kozaki’s actions are edited.

The motions of the kinesis’d lightning is unclear, however upon asking for clarification it appears that Hayate intends to blanket as much of the field with the kinesis’d lightning as he can after it hits the ground. If he does this, there is a secondary attack from the sides which the characters in the target radius will have to respond to after responding to the initial attacks. However, this is obviously ‘attack 3’, as such, and it will occur after the resolution of the initial 2 attacks.

Now on to the defence.

The nature of the concentrated technique:
The immobility feature of the concentrated technique which Kozaki and Natsuki are collaborating on will not result in Kozaki being unable to move. What it does mean is that the second that Kozaki uses his chakra for anything other than maintaining the technique, the technique will disappear because this technique requires constant concentration to maintain as per its description. There will not be a time cost in ceasing this concentration, it is as simple as just no longer paying attention to something.

There will, however, be a slight delay in the time that Kozaki can take to notice the arrival of assailants because of his divided attention. While this delay is not something that will be measured in whole seconds, it is relevant to acknowledge that it will not be an instantaneous notice due to the level of concentration required by the technique.

The defensive disc:
Kozaki has sufficient time to move his Truth Seeker Orb to the front and form a defence. This is because he must move it a much shorter distance than the incoming attacks have to travel, even if those attacks move at higher speeds. However, it is worth noting that while he does this, he is incapable of channelling chakra to cast kinesis. This will delay his casting for the first defence should he choose to utilise the truth seeker orb first.
While this will result in blocking the direct hit from the Raiton attack, Raiton’s ability to diffuse combined with the kinesis manipulation will likely mean that after diffusing through the solid ground those hiding behind the shield will suffer the Raiton passive (though not the strength hit since it diffused through inorganic material).

The Kinesis:
The representatives have taken the ambiguity in the kinesis rules to indicate that kinesis must be initially cast like any other technique (after which it drains chakra each post and can be continually used without further techniques), and as Kozaki does not have kinesis active prior to this post he would have to cast the technique before he can manipulate the samsara through kinesis. He would have insufficient time to cast an A(45) technique with the techniques that are heading toward him at this time.

Producing Samsara:
Kozaki’s ability allows him to produce samsara from his body at [Control] str and speed. Given this, he would be able to protect himself from both the attacks and the Raiton passive in this way (at least as far as this protection would be useful against the types and strengths of attacks being launched). However, given no ability to manipulate this bled samsara in the time he has, he cannot protect any others with it.

The result:
Given that the nature of both attacks has changed, and the enlightening on how the representatives have agreed certain ambiguous mechanics work, Kozaki will be given the opportunity to also edit to change the manner in which he defends since he must respond to what he actually sees. The above rulings will stand true if Kozaki attempts to do any of the above described things as part of his defence. This is congruent with the treatment we gave Fanho in regards to his attack, since the character would know these things about their own abilities/techniques.
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Attacking Medics is a War Crime

Post by Kenobi » Tue Sep 01, 2020 7:38 am

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Seeing as bar an instant explosion, it seems that it's ruled that he will have time to defend no matter what... then no need to change the speed.

That said if it's going to be contested that Fanho's attack hits before mine since my attack is no longer "instant", I would change it- but it seems like thats not being contested here... not to mention if thats the case then fanho blows those discs away and opens em up for me, which I won't complain about either...


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