Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

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TyDie
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by TyDie » Sun Dec 17, 2023 12:40 pm

Application: viewtopic.php?f=87&t=8344128

Change: I have a custom extension I'd like to add to her sheet, as well as a Jinchuuriki ability / Spirit. I'll also be adding the Suiton Concentration so she can use this style haha. ICly, I won't have access to the spirit until I've done proper threads to attain it, but i'd like to treat this as a pre-approval so that I can start to plan for it's uses once I do the necessary threads.
YomitonShow
Yomiton (Darkness release) is an extension of Suiton and Fuuton that creates a pitch black, opaque liquid that seems to absorb natural light in the area. Upon splashing or making contact with something, it bursts into a gaseous cloud of darkness that spreads out from the point of contact, giving the style its name.
Passive: EnshroudingShow
Yomiton's passive is that it Enshrouds the area around it's point of impact in a pitch-black cloud of obscuring dark gas. As a defense, this means that the point of an attack's contact is where the cloud emerges from, whereas as an offense the cloud simply emerges from the point of the offense's contact. The size of the created cloud is half the size of the jutsu's maximum range, and a cloud of Yomiton lasts for a number of posts equal to the control of the jutsu /10. This gas tends to attach to anything it comes into contact with, including people, clinging to them with a strength equal to half the strength of the original jutsu. Those that the gas clings to are subject to the obscuring effect of the cloud, even after leaving the area of the cloud, requiring the target actively remove the cloud in some way. These clouds do not hamper movement by themselves, though additional jutsu may be used to instill extra effects on the gaseous clouds. This cloud's primary use is it's ability to obscure sight, and it does so with an effectiveness determined by the control of the jutsu, according to the following chart:
  • 1-9 Control: 10x10x10m area
  • 10-19 Control: 5x5x5m area
  • 20-29 Control: 3x3x3m area
  • 30-39 Control: 2x2x2m area
  • 40-49 Control: 1x1x1m area
  • 50-55 Control: .5x.5x.5 area
Jinchuuriki (Not yet attained ICly)Show
Emi serves as host to a powerful spirit known as Kurayami no Kangae. The details of this spirit, her powers as a Jinchuuriki, and the progression of her mastery over the spirit are found below.
Kurayami no KangaeShow
Kurayami no Kangae
Kurayami is a powerful spirit who boasts power over the minds of all living things. The being claims to have some long lost connection to the Moon in the sky, and despises the sunlight. They can be best described as a mixture of a Moth and an Owl, with various features of both present within it's appearance. They also, notably, only have one eye - their right eye looks as though it has been removed in some way, though this doesn't seem to have any negative impact on the creature.

Appearance: Combining the most common features of both Owls and Moths, Kurayami has many notable features that show in their host. On the Owl side of things, Kurayami has a large beak, feathers that muffle the sounds of it's movements, Talons, and the ability to rotate it's neck almost 180 degrees. And from the Moth side of things, Kurayami also has feathery antennae to sense vibrations in the air, scales that shed off their body as they move, fur that lines many areas of their body, and of course thin wings that sprout from it's back. Their wings are a mix of both origin animals, with the tips of the wings being lined with feathers while the main body of the wings appear translucent and thin, and the entire body of the spirit is a mixture of reds and blacks. They only have one eye, their left eye, and it often appears to glow vibrantly when the creature is angry, threatened, or preparing to attack.

Personality: Kurayami can best be described with three words; Curious, Manipulative and Vengeful. The creature has an innate desire to understand that which they do not yet know, often seeking to sift through something's memories to sate their curiosities. To this end, they can be very manipulative, using their power to rewrite someone's past to better suit Kurayami's interests, gaslighting them into believing that they're serving their own interests instead of the spirit's. And when this doesn't work, and the spirit's plans are discovered and thwarted, Kurayami is one to hold a grudge for a very long time. They will one day seek vengeance against those who have wronged them, be it tomorrow or centuries away. Prolonged exposure to Kurayami will eventually cause the host to experience many of these same traits, especially curiosity.

Transformations:
  • Base Stage: 1 Mastery +3 Chakra Pool always active (this counts against Emi's max stat total)
  • Stage 1: 10 Mastery +2 Chakra Pool
  • Stage 2: 20 Mastery +5 Chakra Pool, +5 Speed
  • Stage 2 Ascended: 25 Mastery +7 Chakra Pool, +5 Speed. Additionally the host may now use skills from Form 1, and 2 while in Base Stage.
  • Stage 3:35 Mastery +8 Chakra Pool, +5 Speed, +5 Willpower.
  • Stage 4: 45 Mastery +10 Chakra Pool, +5 Speed, +5 Willpower, +2 Control
  • Stage 4 Ascended: 50 Mastery +10 Chakra Pool, +5 Speed, +5 Willpower, +5 Control. Additionally the host may now use skills from Stage 1, 2, 3 and 4 while in Base Stage.
DefinitionsShow
LunacyShow
"Lunacy" refers to Kurayami's unique influence over Emi's chakra, based on The Moon's power to draw forth madness in those it shines down on. This grants her chakra an infectious property; Any techniques that she casts causes her chakra to slip into a target's body on successfully affecting her opponent. Her chakra will then use their Tenketsu as a path to reach the target's mind, where it will remain dormant for a number of posts based on the strength of the jutsu /10. At any point during this duration, Emi can tap into that dormant chakra with special Genjutsu techniques, allowing her to subvert the need for a trigger by using the dormant chakra as a pre-established path for her illusions. In order to use her dormant chakra as a genjutsu trigger, Emi must be within (Control) meters of her target.
Memory ControlShow
"Memory Control" Refers to Kurayami's power to interact with the memories of a living being. These jutsu all follow the normal rules of Ninjutsu, having no physical strength themselves but passing through anything with less strength than the technique's Speed, which are based on the Control of the caster. These techniques typically look like shimmery silver dust, like the scales of a moth flitting through the air towards a destination. Lower ranked techniques only allow for small interactions with a target's memories, such as blurring the face of a person they saw or misremembering the time an event occured. Higher ranked techniques allow for the complete rewriting and removal of memories, or even experiencing and keeping someone else's memories, with the pinnacle of the ability's power allowing for permanent effects. In general, Short term memories (Memories formed within the current thread) are easier to influence than Long term memories (Memories from other threads or moments in a character's timeline), with some of the most thorough techniques requiring posts of sustained contact to fully wipe or rewrite large amounts of a target's memories.
Stage UnlocksShow
Base Stage (1 Mastery):
  • Appearance: In the base stage, Emi shows only a few of Kurayami's traits. Notably, her chakra becomes Silver in color, her left eye turns completely red, and two fuzzy black antennae sprout from the top of her forehead, stretching up to 4 inches when standing straight up. Additionally, the bones and muscles in her neck and spine have shifted enough that her head can turn almost 180 degrees in either direction.
  • Skill(s): In her Base Stage, Emi's chakra passively applies "Lunacy" to anyone affected by her Non-elemental ninjutsu.
Stage 1 (10 Mastery):
  • Appearance: Accessing the first stage of Kurayami's power, Emi skin will begin to darken as soft black and red fur grows over the upper part of her chest, reaching her neck, and around her wrists. Her left eye will begin to glow slightly with power, and her black hair will fan out and flatten, giving it the appearance of feathers that trail off of her head. As she moves, small clouds of moth dust can be seen flitting about behind her, though this is purely aesthetic.
  • Skill(s): With the power of her first stage active, Emi is capable of interacting with, altering or removing the Short and Long term memories of a willing participant. If the target attempts to resist at all, she cannot affect their memories in any way.
Stage 2 (20 Mastery):
  • Appearance:Entering into the second stage, Emi's skin will turn almost entirely black, and the fur covering her chest and wrists will grow further and thicker. This fur will stretch from her wrists to her forearms, and from her chest to her neck and upper stomach. Her toes will turn to sharp talons capable of shredding flesh as her footwear disappears, and the clouds of dust left behind her as she moves will grow in density, slightly obscuring sight through them. Her footwear will return as she reverts back to her normal form. These talons are present in every form moving forward.
  • Skill(s): With the power of her second form, Emi is capable of interacting with, altering or removing the Short term memories of an enemy.
Stage 2 Ascended (25 Mastery):
  • Appearance: This form is no different from Stage 2 physically.
  • Skill(s): While offering no new powers, Emi can access this form with ease once it is unlocked, skipping the first form entirely. In addition, she can access the powers of her first and second form while in her base form.
Stage 3 (35 Mastery):
  • Appearance: In her third stage, the fur lining her body will grow in density and stretch over more of her body. Everything from her wrists to her shoulders will be covered in thick black and red fur, as well as from her neck down to her lower stomach, and from her ankles up to her knees. Her antennae will also thicken and lengthen, growing to 8 inches when fully stretched out, and her left eye will glow red with increased intensity as her right eye turns completely black.
  • Skill(s): In this form, Emi's chakra now passively applies the "Lunacy" effect to anyone affected by any of her ninjutsu effects.
Stage 4 (45 Mastery):
  • Appearance:Attaining her final form, Emi's entire body will be covered in black and red fur, save for her face, hands and feet. The dust that trails behind her as she moves is now thick enough that breathing it in may cause coughing or choking fits, and seeing through them is quite difficult. From her back, two large moth-like wings capable of flight will form, with black and red feathers lining the outer edges of the wings and a thin silver membrane of pure chakra forming the middle of the wings.
  • Skill(s): Attaining the last of her new abilities, access to this form grants Emi the ability to interact with, alter and remove the Long term memories of an enemy.
Stage 4 Ascended (50 Mastery):
  • Appearance: This form is no different from stage 4 physically.
  • Skill(s): While offering no new powers, Emi can access this form with ease once it is unlocked, skipping her other forms entirely. In addition, she can access all of the powers of Kurayami while in her Base form.
Payment: Nada
Last edited by TyDie on Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by Ace Trainer » Mon Dec 18, 2023 1:36 am

That debuff effect for Lunacy while carefully worded to not be a passive effect is very clearly a passive effect, and bypasses the spirit of the rule so it definitely is not going to pass just fyi
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by TyDie » Mon Dec 18, 2023 2:42 pm

The exact conversation that we had was that elemental styles no longer have passive effects that debuff targets. This isn't a "spirit of the rules" debate IMO, I saw the rule change and opted for another option to achieve the effect that I wanted without breaking them. Unlike elemental passive being a byproduct of the style of choice, this ability is a permanent alteration to all of my chakra usage. I see no reason why that shouldn't be allowed when I could just take a swarm as a second ability instead, give it a debuff mechanic like the Kikaichu, and achieve the same results. The spirit is more flavorful and thematic, and I love mastery abilities as a means of showing growth for a character, but I could drop it without much trouble if necessary to make a moth swarm that release dust / scales that cause WP debuffs.

EDIT: for the record, im obviously not against tuning the idea to be more in line with site balance and such. I just don't think the entire concept can be tossed aside. I had a Kumo with a blanket "all of my jutsu are muffled" chakra modifier, and Shio's sage chakra drops WP while also granting a new path for Shio to use for genjutsu, forcing enemies to have sensory capabilities. Mine doesn't grant a new vector for transmission, so I figured I could get more leeway with the overall debuffing effect, but I understand the numbers may be too high and im willing to compromise as desired.
Last edited by TyDie on Mon Dec 18, 2023 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Sunagakure no SatoKouseki TakumaGenin[color=#003893][b][/b][/color], [b][color=#AFBCDB][/color][/b]
Kirigakure no SatoKazuki RyuChuunin[color=#dc143c][/color], [b][color=#C71585][/color][/b]
Iwagakure No SatoHiraku KenjiBannin S-Rank Missing Ninja[b][color=slategray][/color][/b]
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by Ace Trainer » Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:37 pm

Saying the ‘exact conversation’ and then saying you specifically designed this to skirt around the language of the rule is by definition how you violate the spirit of the rule haha.

A former character’s ability isn’t justification for a current one re: previous Kumo character, however “all my jutsu are muffled” isn’t a rebuff so isn’t really relevant.

Shio’s chakra does not drop WP. Shio’s ability grants the passive ability to his chakra that charges the air with a debuffing effect. Meaning contact with his chakra does not necessarily imbed the effect. Additionally, the period it can initiate the debuff and the length of the debuff are both incredibly short (2 posts). I also think your choice in describing it is a little misleading - it gives them the 30m chakra sensory (at no cost!), which comes with the boons and banes of sensory, to include being able to track your opponent and being vulnerable to sensory initiation. Describing only the costs but not the benefit isn’t very accurate.

All that being said, if staff feels Shio’s ability violates the spirit of the rule they’re welcome to rule on it. But, that doesn’t change that the debuffing effect you have currently grants a passive effect that debuffs to all your jutsu which isn’t allowed.
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Genin
Experiment 81 v2
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Jounin
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by TyDie » Tue Dec 19, 2023 1:47 pm

My understanding was that the ruling was specifically put on elemental passives, which while I disagree with that ruling the logic makes sense to a degree. It's pretty easy to access an element, so with the fear of debuffs being too strong I understand wanting to limit access to debuffs being a more deliberate decision. But for my purposes, I felt using an ability slot *was* a deliberate decision, and a large expense when considering that the available potential that comes with an ability slot is practically limitless. Granted, I tied it in to the ability with my spirit, but I'm willing to make it it's own ability slot if that's a concern. Either way, the ruling was made towards style passives based on the wording referencing the elemental styles on the site, and the fact that they were thread-long debuffs (Which I agree was far too much). This is neither an elemental style, nor a thread long debuff, and again - I could accomplish this just as easily with a swarm. If a swarm can do it as an ability slot, why not my chakra?

I actually didn't realize Shio's charged an area, that's a solid difference that I hadn't considered. However I think it's a bit disingenuous to suggest that your intent was to give people free sensory - It's absolutely meant to be used as a transmission method for Shio's genjutsu. And I'm not talking ill about it, that's brilliant design. I don't read other people's threads very often, but from what little I've seen of Shio and from what I've heard in discussions, I'm fairly certain the main use behind the ability is allowing Shio to win WP battles while using Sensory-based Genjutsu against enemies. The benefit of "free sensory" is definitely the side effect, not the main draw.

I don't think Shio's ability needs to change - I don't think it's overpowered at all. Just very well made. Likewise, I don't think my chakra infecting the mind and draining away a target's willpower is too strong either. I'm certain we can come to a compromise, adjust numbers as needed, or alter the design of the ability for staff to be happy with it. When time is available, have a discussion around it, or we can all sit down and talk it out sometime. At the least, take a vote to decide on the ability's concept so I know there's a consensus among staff.

Also, I appreciate you complimenting my writing haha, but I wasn't trying to be sneaky or sly when wording the ability. It's just my natural prose I guess, I like to flower up descriptions. Also also, I mentioned my old Kumo to simply make clear that a "chakra modifier" (adding an ability to my chakra that influences all of my jutsu) shouldn't be an issue on paper.
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by Niro » Mon Jan 01, 2024 9:55 am

While the rule is specifically on elemental passives, the spirit of the rule is very clearly 'no debuffing passives' and changing the word 'passive' to 'property' doesn't get around that. Especially when debuffing passives on a single concentration was strong/broken/OP enough to cause the changes, a debuff passive on all concs/jutsu/abilities is exponentially worse. The Aburame are a poor example as they're more than likely needing to be reworked/entirely removed due to how the Kikaichu work currently and in canon, similarly to how Fae had to remove the -WP debuff from her own swarm. Shio's effect is very limited in itself and requires additional concentrations and equipment to make use of properly while also able to be turned off by anyone with sensory so I wouldn't put it in the same category.
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by TyDie » Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:44 pm

Edited out the WP debuff of Lunacy in accordance with staff discussion on the matter <3 Next idea is to have her chakra serve as a path for genjutsu effects, allowing her to subvert the need for triggers against someone affected by her ninjutsu effects as long as they're within a certain range.

EDIT: was told this is a no go, gimme some time to come up with something else <3
Last edited by TyDie on Tue Jan 02, 2024 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by Kabu » Sun Jan 07, 2024 8:12 am

Let us know when done
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Emi's Custom Release and a spirit!

Post by Niro » Thu Jan 11, 2024 6:14 pm

Going to deny this for now, just post a new mod when you have a new ability thought of
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