Specialization Discussion

Do you think current specialist systems are too restrictive?

Yes
9
53%
No Opinion
4
24%
No
4
24%
 
Total votes: 17

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Director
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Specialization Discussion

Post by Director » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:50 pm

Hey guys, so I said I'd throw this post up here for a while. This is currently the discussion that is occurring in the Discord channel, "this-week-at-saigen". I wanting to compile, and organize the thoughts said. Arguments for and against the idea, and also post up an official poll to better keep track as voting with emoji's isn't that consistent.

The topic at hand is if specializations are too over bearing, and cause issues with building characters. Below is a picture directly from the discord channel.


Then we asked which of the three options are the best. Below is a picture directly from the discord channel.


For now we'll just be voting if the specialization system can stay as it needs to, if you're indifferent to the change, or if it should change to give us an idea of what path we should go down. After voting ceases on that part we will then move to the best proposition if you guys seem interested in it. Please post any arguments I may have missed, or any ones that you have after debating this in the channel or thinking on it. This thread is entirely for debating this idea and stretching it out so we cover all angles.

Below are screenshots from the channel to give a quick overview of what was discussed. It may not have all sides or angles so beware it is not fully representational of what people think, what has been decided, or be a solid answer on the whole debate.
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If your comment didn't make it, it wasn't for any particular reason. I just didn't find it, or I didn't believe it was pertinent to an argument enough to screen cap it.
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Specialization Discussion

Post by WrightJustice » Tue Aug 20, 2019 7:15 pm

I put yes in the sense of just the custom locks.

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Specialization Discussion

Post by Hayate » Fri Aug 23, 2019 1:34 pm

Yeah so specs are fine as is. By design it was restrictive, and that is a good thing. Generalists are in a fine place and there's no reason to open up everything to everything.

An example is Iijutsu- specifically nin based iterations should not be something anyone can just get. It created a scenario where all end-game characters had Iijutsu for regen or various techniques- even to resist poison etc to be competitive, and forced old saigen into a situation where skill and talent and strategy meant less, and stock piling shit tons of irrelevant jutsu to your character just for being able to use it to counter others became the meta.

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Specialization Discussion

Post by ShinobiTruth » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:40 am

I don't necessarily feel that Iijutsu is the best example to bring up. Simply because something is available for people to take doesn't always mean they'll do so, for a number of reasons. Iijutsu especially requires a Ninjutsu/Control heavy build, and the execution of the vast majority of the techniques involve constant focus and can't be used on the move, meaning that other people would need to cover that individual, people that likely do not have iijutsu.

Just because something's open for people to get doesn't necessarily make it a problem so long as there are other conditions on their use that reasonably limit their feasibility to specific types of character builds.

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Specialization Discussion

Post by Sia » Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:47 am

Option 2 on Valk's poll is nice. I vote that.
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Specialization Discussion

Post by TyDie » Sun Aug 25, 2019 7:03 pm

Sia:
Sun Aug 25, 2019 9:47 am
Option 2 on Valk's poll is nice. I vote that.
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Specialization Discussion

Post by Servant » Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:10 pm

This could probably be moved to finished, at least unstickied.

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Specialization Discussion

Post by Strategist » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:06 pm

I'm sorry, the crux of this discussion is that certain members of staff don't want players to be able to "broaden their horizon?!"

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Specialization Discussion

Post by Ace Trainer » Wed Apr 22, 2020 3:41 pm

Well I would close this but I suppose its worth explaining, Strat.

I'm not sure where "broaden their horizon" come from, but the specialist system was introduced to restrict people from being end-tier Madara level characters, yes. We felt that characters of that design, who were God-tier in every field, weren't conducive with the general philosophy of the forum which is to encourage dynamic and diverse builds and consequential decision making. If everyone was capable of doing everything, there would be a point called a singularity where, given infinite amount of time and resources, every character would end up functionally identical. This is the same reason concentrations were introduced. And while yes it is a theoretical problem, we were already seeing characters being developed in a way that was about maximizing endgame skill, and not about deliberate design. A lot of people don't find that fun, and actually something of a turn away from the forum, and it also makes someone an insurmountable threat. After all, I could take all he big skills, max my stats, and then just hunt everyone who hits 300 stats before they can beat me.

There are limiting factors all over the forum, in terms of concentration caps, ability caps, stat caps, point requirements, etc. Specializations were just another one.

HOWEVER;

Given the most recent update, we attempted to modify our approach to that a little, (also what this thread originally aimed to do) and keep some restrictions while loosening others in order to emphasize dynamic builds while reducing the gating that was occurring.
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Specialization Discussion

Post by Strategist » Wed Apr 22, 2020 5:27 pm

Gating?

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